Karl Denson may front a group called the Tiny Universe, but his universe is far from small. The decorated instrumentalist and bandleader, affectionately know as “the Diesel,” has played with a giant swath of artists from across the musical spectrum. He is consistently recruited to augment notable live acts, from late-night blowouts during New Orleans Jazz Fest to Grateful Dead interpretations with Phil Lesh & Friends to global tours large and small. He maintains his role in various notable projects to this day, from his work with seminal groove outfit The Greyboy Allstars to his ongoing gig as the saxophonist for rock and roll icons The Rolling Stones.
But as the 67-year-old multi-instrumentalist and live music dignitary prepares to embark on his most extensive Tiny Universe outing in years, a 13-date September run in the Southeast billed as The Mason-Diesel Line Tour, Karl Denson is less concerned with what he’s already accomplished and more excited by the prospect of what’s still left to learn.
Ahead of The Mason-Diesel Line tour, we caught Karl Denson by phone from his home in San Diego to discuss his new-look band lineup of talented players decades his junior, the live upsides of his renewed focus on studio production, and the ways in which his understanding of the music universe continues to expand.
The tour’s billing is a nod to the Mason-Dixon line, the section of the southern Pennsylvania border that became known as the informal boundary between the Southern slave states and Northern free states in the time of the American Civil War. While you could easily dig up layers of societal nuance within that loaded name—particularly for a band of Black musicians playing a forward-thinking mix of distinctly American musical styles like jazz, funk, and soul around the South—Karl Denson explained that The Mason-Diesel Line wasn’t necessarily conceived with a deeper meaning than geography in mind. Still, he’s well aware that simply mentioning something on a map can evoke weighted assumptions about the state of our union.
“It’s only loaded because the country’s loaded,” Karl said. “It’s loaded because [our country is] doing some weird s— with trying to avoid history and things like that. … I like that it’s a little provocative, but it’s really just from the standpoint of kind of keeping people awake.”
The Diesel’s own current mindset reflects that intention, as well. The latest iteration of the ever-evolving Tiny Universe presents an entirely different lineup of musicians than many longtime fans have come to know—a mix of bright, young talents from around the U.S. who have been keeping the decorated bandleader on his toes.
“We’re really having a blast right now,” Denson gushed. “We’ve been in the woodshed, kind of cleaning things up and writing new tunes, grabbing some cool covers here and there. The last thing we did was we added a singer, Danielle Barker. She’s been with us since last December. Before that we added Rashon Murph on keyboards; He’s from L.A., originally from Cincinnati. Then, we’ve got a couple of guys from New Orleans, Alfred Jordan on drums and Ricio Fruge on trumpet. And then Parker McAllister from New York on the bass, and Ricky Giordano is playing a guitar—he’s from San Diego, originally from New York.”
“We’re a collab from all over the country,” he added. “They’re young, they’re enthusiastic, and they’re sharp. It’s kind of funny for me—being the bandleader, writing the music, and then they come in and they’re very respectful of my position and very honored to play with me—but I’m starting to see… there’s some things [they’re doing] that are really over my head here and there, which is super fun.”
“The people that know the band are going to be super stoked. It’s made a nice turn for the better,” Denson continued. “We’ve just got more places we can go now. That’s what we’re showcasing now, where there’s a nice bass feature, and a nice drum feature, along with the vocals… it’s starting to feel like a show. It’s an interesting ‘big tent’ kind of idea with the jazz thing and the funk thing and the pop thing. … It’s just been a really fun maturation of the band—of the concept of the Tiny Universe.”
[Photo via Karl Denson’s Tiny Universe – KDTU at Daze Between New Orleans 2024]
That maturation of the KDTU mission, Karl Denson explained, has already yielded novel discoveries—both in his existing repertoire and in the new music he’s writing for this group of highly trained players from diverse musical backgrounds. “It’s fun to have these guys come into the band and they’ve never played songs that we’ve played for years, and now they’re like, ‘Man, we got to play that tune. We got to play that tune. We got to play that tune, that’s one of my favorite tunes,’” he told Live For Live Music. “So we’re in the process of really revitalizing the catalog along with the new way that we arrange together.”
“When you have different tools, you can make different kinds of structures, you know what I mean?” he went on. “Ricky, the guitar player, came up with a little thing in five [meter] the other day that I couldn’t even hear. I was like, ‘That’s not five.’ And they’re like, ‘Yeah, it’s five, dude’ [laughs]. Finally, I get it now, and they’re just fish in water in this realm where I was just like, ‘Whoa, I don’t quite get that.’ I mean, I could play along with it, but I’m not inside it like they are. So it’s really been a great learning process for me, too. … It’s a continuation of the learning process that I’ve been going through for the last 25 years with this band.”
Of course, Karl Denson is as well attuned to the exchange of ideas and perspectives inherent to a sideman role as he is to the duties of leading his own long-running group. While The Mason-Diesel Line is a notably extensive trek for the Tiny Universe, Denson already spent several months earlier this year circling North America with The Rolling Stones on their 20-date Hackney Diamonds Tour.
Although he is certainly applying practical wisdoms he solidified on the road with the Stones to his ramped-up Tiny Universe schedule—”I am just making sure I do my Tai Chi every day, and eating right, and getting myself ready for the gruel,” Karl Denson said of his Mason-Diesel Line Tour preparations—the lessons he’s bringing back to his work with his own band largely concern his holistic approach to presenting his body of work.
“I don’t have that catalog,” he said of the differences between serving as a supporting player for the Stones and fronting his own band, “but I have my catalog and I’m trying to stay true to it just the way they are. My catalog is based in more of a jazz aesthetic, along with funk, but what I get from the Stones is just the work ethic that goes along with having a catalog and trying to properly represent it every day.”
As he continues getting comfortable with the new group of musicians around him, Denson is channeling a renewed sense of inspiration into a growing cache of new tunes—many of which have already entered the band’s live setlists. “I’ve been writing a bunch of tunes and then giving them to the band,” he said, “and I’m getting really comfortable with that, so the live show has really got a new feeling, a new aesthetic to it.”
Adding to the forward thinking milieu of The Mason-Diesel Line Tour is supporting act SNACKTIME, the seven-piece, Philly-based brass band whose lively fusion of jazz, hip-hop, rock, punk, and R&B echoes the Tiny Universe’s merging of musical worlds. While Denson wasn’t familiar with the group when it was booked to support his tour, he quickly found common ground in their open-minded stylistic approach. “They’re very much in line with what I’ve been hearing from the younger musicians in terms of where jazz is going, where soul is going. It’s really cool,” the Diesel mused. “I’m looking forward to hearing them night to night because I started doing a jazz project thing at the Blue Note not too long ago, so I’ve been listening to younger jazz artists and kind of being aware of the fact that, like, the hip-hop scene has changed what jazz is, and we’re in our fifth or sixth generation of jazz school graduates who have the internet. So it’s just a really fun place to be, and these guys are definitely in line with what I’ve been hearing.”
You could argue that that mindset itself is quintessentially “jazz,” a style and medium which has always been defined by fearless navigation toward what’s new, what’s cool, and what hasn’t yet been attempted. From the genre’s greats through history to its modern torchbearers, the process of finding harmony between where we came from and where we’re going has always been its guiding light. “That’s exactly the point,” Denson agreed, “trying to be relevant in a way that’s actually organic to you. Not just jumping on a bandwagon, but actually finding out the things that you like of what’s coming.”
Looking forward, Denson has his eyes on the studio—an area in which he feels he has plenty left to learn. “The next thing for us is just getting in the studio and realizing that aesthetic [on record],” he explained. “[We’re going to] start doing some singles, and we’re going to bring in some random producers to kind of help us realize what we’re trying to get at. … I was just on the horn with one of the guys from the band Franc Moody, and I want to have them produce a track, and then Eric Krasno, working with him to try to get a track done here shortly.”
“These are going to be vocal-heavy tunes and we’re going to do some guests and things like that,” Denson added, “but it’s just trying to mature the concepts of how to produce a song. That’s really been my learning curve as an artist as I write. I feel like I’ve written a couple of really great songs, but maybe not produced them as well as they could have been produced. So that’s the next phase of my life, trying to learn how to really get the most out of the production of a song, [and] the audience will see that in the shows because we’ve been adding that kind of value to the songs as we go along. We’re adding new little elements that are a little harder to pull off live, but we’re working real hard and making it worthwhile.”
“We’re just kind of spreading our wings and trying to figure it all out,” Denson reflected. “We’re always learning and we’re trying to teach our audience something, you know? That’s the idea.”
Karl Denson and the Tiny Universe will launch The Mason-Diesel Line tour this Thursday, September 5th at Nashville, TN’s Eastside Bowl. The tour will continue from there to Asheville, NC’s free Boomtown Arts & Heritage Festival (9/6), Knoxville, TN’s Bijou Theatre (9/7), Carrboro, NC’s Cat’s Cradle (9/9), Richmond, VA’s The Broadberry (9/10), Charlotte, NC’s Neighborhood Theatre (9/12), Wilmington, NC’s Bowstring Brewyard (9/13), Charleston, SC’s Drifter Fest (9/14), Rocky Mount, VA’s Harvester Performance Center (9/17), Washington, D.C.’s The Hamilton Live (9/18), Waynesboro, VA’s The Foundry (9/19), Lewisburg, WV’s Tyler Childers-led Healing Appalachia festival (9/20), and an official Bourbon & Beyond after-party at Louisville, KY’s Headliners Music Hall featuring as yet unannounced special guests. For a complete list of upcoming Karl Denson’s Tiny Universe tour dates, head here.
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The post As His ‘Mason-Diesel Line’ Tour Approaches, Karl Denson Is Learning To Expand His Tiny Universe [Interview] appeared first on L4LM.
